NA: Tell me about the name first. The Carolina wren is a lively little bird, but I am wondering if you wanted the word, Carolina, in the name to imply the South?
AS: I didn’t found the press, so I didn’t choose the name. But the name is important: The Carolina Wren is a choosey little bird—a feminist bird if such a thing could be said. The female chooses her mate after inspecting nests made by several males. It’s also a very hardy bird, indigenous to the Carolinas… and I like to think it stands for the press for these reasons too. The press’s mission has always been to make underrepresented writers more accessible—in the 1970s, that meant women, people of color, and southern writers; more recently, we’ve expanded that to include other “others,” such as LGBT writers, writers of more diverse ethnic or racial backgrounds, differently-abled writers and even experimental writers. In other words, the mission to publish underrepresented writers has stayed constant while the definition of underrepresented has broadened.
(For more about the history of the press before the 21st century, see CWP-founder Judy Hogan’s history on our website. )
NA: I think it must take a lot of vision, energy, and passion to start a press. What inspired you to take that step?
AS: I’ll talk about my history with the press and my later experience of “inheriting” the press.
Once upon a time, Judy Hogan published one of my poems in an anthology called A Living Culture in Durham. I was just graduating from Duke and saw the flyer on a bulletin board. I submitted and was accepted. I later met Jaki Shelton Green (probably the most recognizable poet CWP published in the 80s) when I wrote a story about her for the Independent in 1987.
After that, I forgot about the press until my friend David Kellogg, then president of the CWP board, invited me to submit to a new poetry series he was publishing. He wanted to publish poets in pairs—one established, one emerging—and I was to be the emerging poet alongside the Afro-Canadian poet George Elliott Clarke. My chapbook was published in 2000 and I was invited onto the Board of Directors soon after that.
As President, beginning sometime in 2004, I made several changes to the poetry series: First of all, instead of continuing the Poetry Series as “by invitation only,” I made it into a national contest. This brought us some income from submission fees, a wider array and higher quality of entries, and a stronger connection between the emerging and the established poets, since the established poet acted as the final judge for the contest. Having a national contest gave us a national reputation, which the press had not really had. We maintained the southern feel of the press by choosing southern or southern-connected judges most of the time. The judges were generally from underrepresented groups, and I think this appealed to emerging poets also from the margins.
Secondly, I also made the poetry series books more professional-looking and saleable. The early books in the series were chapbooks—handsewn with thread—and bookstores did not like this. Also, they were printed by a local fine press, which meant they were very beautiful but also very expensive. I researched printers for perfect-bound books, got competing bids, and was able to get the books for about a quarter of the previous price. Also, I increased the size of the book from a chapbook to a full-length collection, and opened it to first or second collections. This also increased the number of entries. Finally, I also really upped the promotional efforts: We send out 100 or more review copies (and sometime pre-publication galleys) for each book we publish, we host a launch either at AWP or here or in the author's home town, and we submit the published book to every year-end award we can find. Our books are distributed by Baker & Taylor, one of the two largest distributors in the country, and sold through our website and Amazon.com. We sell to universities directly and through Follett Educational and Barnes & Noble College Bookstores. This kind of availability is crucial…the books have to be accessible.
NA: What kind of writers do you seek to publish? What kinds of work would you never print?
AS: In her history of the press, Judy Hogan mentions looking among the submissions for “those strange fish.” Yes indeed, we look for the strange fish. We love the experimental and political poets—Evie Shockley, Tiffany Higgins, Erica Hunt, Minnie Bruce Pratt and the forthcoming books by L. Lamar Wilson and Lee Ann Brown. On the other hand, I personally love very tightly crafted, musical poetry—like Yvonne Murphy and Karen Anderson. Though of course the categories of political poetry and lyrical poetry are by no means mutually exclusive—what we like best is work that is BOTH. When I read, I read primarily for music, and I have other readers who look for other things. By having a group of readers, we know every author gets a fair shake. My primary poetry readers are all phenomenal poets: Tanya Olson, Chris Vitiello, and Patrick Herron. Many collections that are submitted to us are imperfect—poets don’t always know what works in terms of ordering their poems in a manuscript, nor how the manuscript will change/grow once it gets designed into a book. We can also edit for content within the individual poems—if the book has the right feel overall, it will be a joy to work on—that shift from manuscript to book is actually my favorite part. Again, the challenge has always been to look for the best poetry but also to maintain our goal of publishing underrepresented authors.
I hesitate to use the word never, but there are certain works that we have so far always passed on: Rhymed verse, especially when it’s centered on the page. 19th-Century-ish poetry or historical poetry. Poetry that appears racist, homophobic or otherwise hostile to our values. Poetry with illustrations—because it’s too expensive—with the exception that we provided the ISBN and United States distribution for Grey Mare Press and The National Library of Wales’s The Book of Ystwyth: Six Poets on the Art of Clive-Hicks Jenkins. {We are also not interested in genre fiction, plays, or academic writing.}
NA: I grew up in the South, in Virginia, and I don’t know that the South ever fully leaves a person. I was wondering if you might say a little bit about your perspective on southern poetry and publishing?
AS: I always feel uncertain about generalizing here, especially since, despite my 30 years in NC, I am not considered a real southerner…
NA: I love that answer! I am not real either. But by rights, you are more southern than I. I think the very fact that you say that tells you a lot about the south. Could you talk a little bit about the Doris Bakwin award?
AS: The Doris Bakwin Award for Wrtiting by a Woman is named for my aunt, who died in 2004. In her memory, my uncle Michael Bakwin gave us a start-up grant for this contest for fiction or memoir by a woman. In Doris’s honor, we always look for gutsy, talented writers—strong women who are telling strong stories. The titles in this series are Downriver by Jeanne Leiby, All Eyes: A Mother’s Struggle to Save her Schizophrenic Son by Phoebe Hoss, and Relative Strangers by Margaret Hermes. We are just now selecting finalists for the next book, and we will also be publishing a book by the current judge, Moira Crone.
NA: Somewhere I read that a CWP editor suggested a poetry book costs 60 cents to print. Is that true?
AS: I hope it wasn’t me that said that! It’s true that I have paid as little as 2.50 apiece for a 6x9-inch, 80-page book of poetry to be printed, based on a 1000-copy print run. That is pretty cheap per piece! But then again, $2500 is a big chunk of change to come up with and it’s less of deal once you consider the other costs associated with publishing a book: prize money to the author, design fees for book and press release, mailing of 100 review copies, as well as the fact that the standard discount to distributors is 55%. There is not much of a profit to be made….
Actually, I am surprised that you did not ask any questions about the economic portrait of the press. I think it’s really important to be open about these things
At the time the E.D. left in 2002, the press’s budget was about $17,000 a year, and there was only $79 in the bank! In the ensuing years, from 2002 to 2012, I brought the budget back into the $30,000 range and we have settled on 2-3 books or projects per year. We survive by virtue of a) grants from the NC Arts Council and the Durham Arts Council, b) gifts from donors, and c) book sales and contest submissions--about equal parts from each. I am one of the major donors to the press, and of course I don’t take a salary, nor do any of the board members. I usually have a part-time worker, an Assistant Director, who works 5 or 10 hours a week for a generous hourly wage. Aside from publishing books, and a part-time assistant, our single greatest expense is attending AWP—that can cost $3000 or more! But it is well worth it—the other attendees are our greatest audience of readers and submitters.
Our main challenges over the 10 years I’ve run the press have been economic. In the1990s there was a lot more grant money around, but since the 2000s began, the money has been slowly drying up. Our grants (and those of other public arts organizations including libraries) have gotten smaller and smaller. At the same time, a weaker economy has meant fewer or smaller contributions from donors, and slower book sales, and following on that, less willingness on the part of bookstores (and libraries) to carry our books. It used to be that our books went straight onto library shelves (meaning that a good part of a print run was quickly sold), but that isn't so anymore.
Two things that have helped us in the last decade: 1) Cheaper printing has meant that we can do larger print runs more cheaply, or choose more interesting (and previously vastly more expensive) trim sizes. 2) By really improving the quality/caliber of the writers we publish, we are selling more books to colleges and universities for use in classrooms. This in turn has meant that college students are getting introduced to our press—and we do find ourselves receiving more entries from the MFA world. (Our attendance at AWP every year also helps!
Ebook publishing, I believe, is affecting the publishing industry as a whole—everyone has had to hurry up and start delivering content for eBook readers. It's much cheaper to produce an eBook than a printed book, and many works are getting a new life as ebooks. We are getting ready to release several of our past fiction collections and memoirs as eBooks. But we have not been satisfied with the eBook formatting of poetry—line breaks get all messed up--so we are waiting for that issue to be resolved before issuing our back poetry titles as eBooks.
NA: Are most of the writers you publish
prize-winners? Or do you also solicit manuscripts or have an open reading
period?
AS: For the last several
years we have been publishing contest winners (and judges) almost exclusively.
We have also published a few poetry collections of poets we know and love— Jaki
Shelton Green, Nancy Simpson, and Shirlette Ammons—as well as The Book of Ystwyth: Six Poets on the Art of
Clive Hicks-Jenkins, our recent collaboration with Grey Mare Press and The
National Library of Wales. Since I have been doing most the work myself, about
2-3 books or projects a year is all I can handle in addition to being a mom, an
equestrian vaulting coach, and a poet myself too.
NA: Will you say a few words about the fiction, nonfiction, and children’s books you publish?
AS: As for prose—the Doris Bakwin winners are all we have done in the last few years. We published two children’s books, The North Carolina Alphabet and Peace Comes to Ajani in the last few years. The books were beautifully produced, but I am not an expert at marketing children’s literature, so they didn’t find their audiences. Between that, and the fact that color printing is hugely expensive, we are no longer doing children’s literature. But that could change—what gets published has a lot to do with who is on the Board of Directors—and for the past several years we have been poetry-heavy. Who knows what the future may bring, though.
NA: Could you say a few
words about your new authors?
AS: We are right now putting together the next two books in the Carolina Wren Press Poetry Series: L. Lamar Wilson’s Sacrilegion and Lee Ann Brown’s Crowns for Charlotte. Both of these books are political and musical at once. They should turn a lot of heads. We are also about to launch Ten Wrens, our first-ever audio sampler of CWP Poets. This cd will be a way to introduce people to poets we have published since 2005, in other words from from Jaki Shelton Green to Lee Ann Brown. Lamar Wilson is a dynamo, with readings scheduled widely next year, starting with Cave Canem in February. Lee Ann Brown is also a frequent reader, so 2013 will be a big poetry year for us.
NA: What are some of the happiest or proudest moments for the press? Feel free to provide links to reviews, events, readings, etc.
AS: One book I am very proud of is Evie Shockley’s a half-red sea. Evie was one of the first “emerging poets” in the poetry series, paired with Erica Hunt. When Evie’s chapbook The Gorgon Goddess quickly sold out, I asked her to judge the contest and to let us do her first full-length collection. She accepted gladly and we did her book in a wide format with a fold-out page for one poem. Evie hit the ground running with that book—she read/performed as often as she could, she went on panels, she attended conferences—basically she did what I hope all our authors will do—get out there and share the poetry. That’s how the book sells. Of course it has to be excellent writing to begin with! Anyhow, I am so glad I printed 2000 copies of the book because she has really sold it—we are almost to the point of reprinting. Evie’s second book, the new black, came out from Wesleyan UP in 2011, and has been extraordinarily successful. I’m glad she went to another press for that book because I don't think CWP could have handled the promotions at that level. Our job, bringing this talented writer into the mainstream, is done!
By way of ending this perhaps-too-long blog entry, I want to say that my time at CWP has been a wonderful adventure. I have become a publisher through my experiences at CWP, and I have made some wonderful friends through it. I think CWP does an important job bringing writers into the public eye, and also helping writers who are also in academia, get closer to tenure. That job security is so important for poets—if only all our artists could be sustained like that!
And a word to aspiring poets: The CWP poets who are successful are untiring self-promoters: they set up dozens of reading for themselves, they meet with writers groups and classes, attend conferences and book fairs, search out year-end awards that we can submit their books to, and so forth. With the exception of the launch party and the 100 review copies, which the press covers, these poets make these efforts on their own dime, and that is not unusual for poetry. There’s no money in it, never has been—you have to do it for the love of it, of the roll of the words on your tongue, the feel of the paper in your hands.
NA: I would like to end the interview with a poem or excerpt from a Carolina Wren author. Would you be willing to post one below?
AS: There are so many wonderful poems to pick from, and from so many wonderful books, as you can see by a glance at our website.
But here’s a short poem from Yvonne C. Murphy’s new collection, Aviaries.
Mona Lisa
It’s a mistake, this mystique.
A technique of thin glazes,
I look like I’m thinking.
He used urine as
a base for me
(I won’t tell you whose).
He also used arsenic—
built-in bomb.
He thought he was a god,
he could have been more generous.
These hands in my lap, perpetual,
I want a pet.
I want a dog
like the other girl got.
Fuck, I hate the Louvre
(pardon my French).
Did I tell you everyone wants me?
Enigma, c’est moi!
All day the tourists—
I’m a girl forgotten
by her womanly body.
My robe is heavy, I need a nap.
----
Andrea Selch joined the board of Carolina Wren Press 2001, after the publication of her poetry chapbook, Succory, which was #2 in the Carolina Wren Press Poetry Series. She has an MFA from UNC-Greensboro, and a PhD from Duke University, where she taught creative writing from 1999 until 2003. Her poems have been published in Calyx, The Greensboro Review, Oyster Boy Review, Luna, Swink, The MacGuffin, Prairie Schooner and featured on the Best American Poetry blog. Her full-length collection of poetry, Startling, was published by Turning Point Press in 2004, and reissued by Cockeyed Press in 2009. In 2007, Choreo Collective danced her “Holy Shell Waiting for the Return of the Soul,” and “Early Weaning” at the biennial symposium of Duke University’s Sallie Bingham Center for the Study of Women’s History and Culture. She won a 2008 “Hippo” Award from The Monti for her spoken story, “Replacement Child.” Her small collection of Ekphrastic poems, Boy Returning Water to the Sea: Koans for Kelly Fearing, was published by Cockeyed Press in 2009, and in 2011 her work appeared in The Book of Ystwyth: Six Poets on the Art of Clive Hicks-Jenkins. She lives in Hillsborough, NC, with her partner, their two children, and a passel of quadrupeds.
Nin Andrews received her BA from Hamilton College and her MFA from Vermont College. The recipient of two Ohio Arts Council grants, she is the author of several books including The Book of Orgasms, Spontaneous Breasts, Why They Grow Wings, Midlife Crisis with Dick and Jane, Sleeping with Houdini, and Dear Professor, Do You Live in a Vacuum. She also edited Someone Wants to Steal My Name, a book of translations of the French poet, Henri Michaux. Her book, Southern Comfort was published by CavanKerry Press in 2010. Follow Nin's blog here.
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