I first encountered Erika L. Sánchez’s work in a library at the University of New Mexico. Erika had graduated a few years before me, and I was working on a manuscript that would one day become The Verging Cities. Erika’s poems stood out to me because we were both writing about borders, immigration, narco-violence, and femicide though she grew up in Chicago, traveling in the summers to Mexico, and I grew up on the U.S.-Mexico border. I’ve always been very interested in how vividly Erika can reinvent the narrative of crossing in her poems and hold her speakers suspended in a liminal space.
This interview is a part of a series titled Latina/o Poets On Liminal Spaces, you can read my introduction here, and the first interview with Javier Zamora here. This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
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Natalie Scenters-Zapico: So my first question is, from one border obsessed writer to another, why the obsession?
Erika L. Sánchez: Oh, that’s a really good question. I feel like growing up everything was about having papers, not having papers. Mojados, you know, that was just always a family narrative. Crossing the border, and living in the United States, and who is legal. I think about my parents and how they crossed the border and how that was very, very transgressive in many ways. And how innocently I took on that transgression that they, I don’t know what the verb is…so they transgressed, so I sort of followed suit but very differently. And that created a problem actually for me and my family. I see my parents as rule breakers and I think it’s just inevitable that I write about borders of all kinds whether they’re physical or non-physical. It’s just always been a part of my life in some form.
NSZ: So, is your family originally from Chihuahua, or…
ES: Durango.
NSZ: Durango. So they’re from Durango, but you grew up in Chicago. How has that distance affected your work? You just described being interested in family stories of crossing, and that transgression to use your word, and how you’ve followed suit, and what it means to be transgressive, but in a different way than your parents. So how has that distance affected the way that you conceive of place?
ES: I grew up going to Mexico pretty frequently during the summer. And in some way those were the best times of my life. Looking back on my life, I was pretty unhappy as a child and there’s a lot of reasons for that. Some being that my parents were working a lot and it was very difficult. And so when I’d go to Mexico, it was liberating for me to go outside and see all these people I loved.
I know I idealized it when I was a kid, so really what I write about is longing—wanting to be there, even though being there is impossible. And in that there’s a sense of loss. In my memory everything is fun and beautiful, but I know that that’s not true. Now there’s a lot danger lurking there, which is so different from what I grew up with. Now, I am filled with a sense of sadness that things are not the same. But mostly now, I am filled with a sense of sadness that things are not the same and that a lot of people have left it.
NSZ: It’s interesting because I relate in a way. I was having dinner last night with some friends who are from Chihuahua and we were talking about how it’s this weird thing to say that you’re from the border because people immediately associate it with…they react like, “You’re from an ugly place.” And what’s heartbreaking is that it became a really ugly place, but that wasn’t always the reality. Until 2009 it wasn’t that bad, and it’s more complicated than making it a horror show. So it is hard, and it’s difficult not to romanticize what it was like before.
ES: And I always knew that violence was there I just wasn’t surrounded by it, which is a very different perspective. And in finding all these things out there’s a sense of a loss of innocence. I mean this is the land that you love and it isn’t what you thought it was or it is no longer that.
NSZ: So, in your work there is a lot of traveling and pausing and traveling again. For example, in your poem “Narco” published in POETRY, Rompemadres pulls a woman into the desert. And in “Donkey Poem” you have the ass with its thousands of years plowing the cracked earth and arriving with crumbling hooves, which it such a great image. And in this way, you have speakers who are perpetually caught in what could be called a liminal space. And to me your poems seem very interested in the act of crossing the border as a rite of passage, in which your speakers are stuck in that space. Now this is my reading, but would you say that you’re interested in writing or surviving that liminality?
ES: Yeah, for me I see it as what it is for me to create my own space. I feel like I’ve always been trying to carve out a space. I mean I’ve come to love my life, and the space that I inhabit, but I’d never really thought of it in the terms of liminality until now. I think that it definitely applies. It applies to me in the sense of being marginalized, which I am, but I also feel really empowered to inhabit this space. And, as I’ve said, I’ve always felt like I don’t belong in a traditional sense. And so, those things then begin to affect the poems. And yeah, there is a lot of moving in the poems, and a lot of confusion in grappling with identity, and this fear of never reaching a destination. I really like that idea, which I had never really thought of, the idea of moving towards something but not knowing exactly what. It’s like that Gloria Anzaldúa quote where she says something about this being her space, and that she has a right to that. And that is something that’s easy to take for granted, unless you’ve really had to fight for a space.
NSZ: Yeah and as I kept reading your poems, I kept feeling this overwhelming sense of never quite getting there. The idea of movement is present in your work, and coming from a place, and pausing maybe in that process, but never totally reaching it. So your speakers are forced then to exist in that liminal space, which you do incredibly well. There are many other Latina/o poets who are interested in this same idea. Do you think that Latina/o poets are comfortable existing in that liminal space in their work? Do they occupy that space in American literature?
ES: I think that there are a lot examples of Latina/o poets exploring liminality and that in-between space in their work. But what I don’t know is if there’s comfort in that. I can’t speak for all Latina/o poets, but for myself I don’t always feel comfortable in that space. I think I just have to explore that space, because it happens to be where I am. And Latina/o poets aren’t really included in the canon as much as we should be.
NSZ: Is immigration an act of exile into a permanent state of liminality? Is this liminality inherited or passed down?
ES: Yeah, I think about my parents, especially my dad, the things that he’s been through to get to this country and the things that he’s been through in this country. And in many ways by now he’s American, but he’s always longing for Mexico. And so, even though we have a life here there’s this sense of people always viewing you as not really a part of it. Which is why I think they’ve always longed for the life that they had, even though it was very difficult. And they’ve come to accept that they live here now, but a part of them longs for life back in Mexico. So it’s just layer upon layer of longing.
NSZ: In many ways you pull from the stories of that liminal border crossing experience in much of your work. I think of the poem “Narco” where you play with the saying, “Quién es el jefe más jefe?” which is used a lot in narco-corridos. Why are you interested in that kind of play? How do you engage with it?
ES: I think that always having been an Other, playing with what is both thrown at you and what you hear is inevitable. That being said, I don’t sit down and attempt to do this right? It’s more it comes to my mind, so that’s what I write about. I like to write a lot about stories I hear a lot, or things I can’t get out of my mind. It’s never something that I sit down to create. And so, I think I’m just interested in providing a different perspective, or writing about things that I’ve felt aren’t being talked about. It’s not really a system, it’s just how I write. The other thing that I kind of question is this idea of writing to show your identity. I write from a place of my experience, and so that inherently then is a part of my identity.
NSZ: Yeah, I like what you just said about the difference between writing to say I am this identity, as oppose to saying I am this experience. And there’s something really disturbing about writing just to show that you are an identity, because in many ways you’re only justifying your own visibility to a dominant culture or white audience. I mean who else would really be interested in: I am this identity let me showcase it in these expected, played out, perhaps token ways. But then it begs the question why would writers feel that impulse do you think?
ES: I think some writers perhaps lack the rigor, in many ways. But it is disturbing, I don’t know, that you would be expected to perform in a way that is inauthentic to your community. I think for some writers that performance maybe comes easily because they have to enact it so often in American culture anyway.
NSZ: Yeah, things to think about for sure…So I feel like you occupy this really interesting space in which you are an activist in your prose writing life. Can you be an activist and an artist at the same time? Has balancing these two things ever been an issue for you?
ES: I think I’ve always just done it. I think I wouldn’t know another way of doing things. And sometimes when I think about the balance of those two things, I think for me they just go hand in hand. You know, I’ve often felt obligated to speak in my writing for things that I see happening around me. In my novel I entered it with a real sense of what I wanted it to be for young adults, and how I wanted it to be activism in a way.
NSZ: Do you think there’s more pressure being a Latina writer to want to write about issues that have affected your experiences, and as you said earlier, in turn affect your identity?
ES: Yeah I think there definitely is. You grow up in a community where, often times, you see so many people without a voice that you only want to give voice to that. You also want to create a space for that voice that is safe and recognized. So I’ve always felt the need to do these things.
NSZ: Earlier you made mention of Anzaldúa, so I have an Anzaldúa questions for you. So Anzaldúa was writing very much to question the machismo and nationalism in The Aztlán Essays, that came before her. And Anzaldúa’s work in Borderlands/La Frontera can very easily be read from a liminal perspective. How do you think we exist as Latina poets post-Anzaldúa?
ES: Oh, that’s a really good question. I mean we have a lot of different experiences than what Anzaldúa did, especially with regard to publishing. And she’s definitely provided for that space, for that vocabulary to explore Latina identity, which we can then build on. And a lot of what she writes about I also feel like I’m still writing about because there’s still more to be said. I feel like while she influences my aesthetics, there are still ways to make those experiences your own. And we’re still dealing with ways to present much of the violence that Anzaldúa writes about with new aesthetics.
I think we both deal with Anzaldúa in our work, but we do it in different ways. This is something that I think that you’re exploring in interesting ways in The Verging Cities, which is very much in conversation with the violence of the female body that Anzaldúa was interested in, but you’re exploring it in new ways.
NSZ: Well, and it’s almost impossible for me to think that I would be able to do anything that I do with borders without her coming before me. She just totally changed the conversation. But also the work that she did to question the machismo in the Chicano movement was ground breaking. Do you think that there’s machismo in the poetry world that Latinas still face? And does this kind of strong cultural machismo make for a different kind of feminist? A feminism in the liminal space?
ES: Yeah, I think that it definitely exists. I mean I think that there are so many great Latina writers out there who are consistently overlooked. The fact that there are no Latina featured presenters at AWP Los Angeles speaks volumes to the ways in which we are overlooked and our work is overlooked. As far as where feminism becomes a part of that, I think that we constantly have to fight for what we have and help others to get there too.
NSZ: Well, and sometimes it feels like Latina writers are really only recognized in pockets, like within a community, but rarely given the spotlight as just being great poets aside from being Latinas. Which is why it’s important for poets like you to win the Ruth Lily, because then it’s really a victory for us all.
ES: Yeah, I mean it’s exciting but I also think of the importance of mentorship, and how sometimes I get a little frustrated that I’ve never had a strong female mentor, let alone a Latina mentor. Most of my mentors have been men, a few white women, but mostly men. And it’s interesting because I would totally be that for someone else. I work very hard to be a mentor to those young women who need a model that it can be done, that you can be a Latina and have a successful career and this is how you can go about it.
NSZ: Yeah, mentorship is a huge issue because it’s so important that as you climb you pull other people up with you. And then there’s the problem of what does that say about maybe the pressures societally on women writers, and Latina writers in particular, where they can’t mentor as much?
ES: Well I feel like we need to work harder to be that for other people and to help them. Because support is so important in giving someone the confidence to realize what they want to do.
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Erika L. Sánchez is a CantoMundo Fellow and winner of the 2013 “Discovery”/Boston Review Prize. She has received scholarships from the Fulbright Program and Bread Loaf Writers' Conference. Most recently she was awarded the Ruth Lilly and Dorothy Sargent Rosenberg Poetry Fellowship from the Poetry Foundation. Her poetry has appeared in Boston Review, diode, Hayden's Ferry Review, Hunger Mountain, Pleiades, Poetry, “Latino USA” on NPR, and the anthology Please Excuse This Poem: 100 New Poems for the Next Generation (2015). Her nonfiction has been published in Al Jazeera, Cosmopolitan, The Guardian, NBC News, Rolling Stone, Salon, and many others. Sánchez lives in Chicago.